A Response to Nastiness

The following post was written by Morwen, in response to a letter that circulated around the Santa Cruz area in early July, 2006. Those who are faint of heart, please note: This letter from "Max Jurgenson" contains the first truly nasty words to be published in this blog.


Dear fellow members of the fire circle community,

You may have received an email from Max Jurgenson, attacking Phoenix Fire as a whole, and Jimi and me personally. Although he claims to know Jimi and me, I do not remember meeting him at Firedance, nor does anyone I have spoken to.

Whoever this person is, it is sad that that he is so upset that he feels he must work this hard to discredit and disparage the community coming together for Phoenix Fire. While I find the personal attacks upsetting, for the good of the overall community, I would rather focus on forgiveness and pray for healing.

Perhaps the letter speaks for itself, however it contains factual assertions that I feel must be corrected. Below you will find a copy of the letter, with the corrections I have made, as well as some comments, which I have inserted in blue italics. Everything not in blue below was in the original letter from "Max."

Blessings,
Morwen

******


Hello Friends –
I have come upon some very disturbing information about the new ‘phoenix fire’ event that I am compelled to share with you. In brief, many of the founders and leaders of this new event are lying, breaking their written agreements, and breaking the law in the process of starting their new event.

I believe it is very likely this new phoenix fire event will NOT happen, so be aware before sending in money which you would most likely never get back. The new group will need to pay a significant amount of money to the Camp before being allowed on site, and they don’t have the registration income or backers to pay these bills. As such, the camp is likely to deny the group access to the site. The group may try to ‘pass the hat’ amongst the community in the days before the event, and maybe they’ll come up with the $10,000 they need, maybe not…


In fact, the money needed to pay the camp for the event has already been received and is in the bank. Furthermore, we have also received commitments from community members to help cover any deficit in the overall event budget, so “passing the hat” will not be necessary, though of course donations to support the ongoing growth of this community event are welcome.


As well, the group’s documented illegal actions leave them highly liable to legal action, which if taken would likely shut down the event.


This is straight up wrong and displays Max’s ignorance of the legal situation.


It is so very very sad that something as wonderful as the fire circle many of us love is being influenced by a handful of such unsavory characters, and it is scary to see that there’s a few dozen people – or, to use the technical term, “lemmings” – who are blindly following these despicable people.



I bet it surprises many of you to learn that you are lemmings following blindly!


Personally, Morwen and Jimi Two Feathers, the most vocal leaders of the new event, were always rude, cranky and cliquish to me at FIREDANCE.


Well, that’s odd, since we have no idea who Max is and so never had any interaction with him that could be called rude, cranky, or anything else.


I never liked them, and I and most of my friends find their East Coast, dark pagan culture and rainbow attitude unattractive and inappropriate in the California sunshine.


I am a friend of the fire circle, a friend of this community, and a friend of Firedance. As such, while many people “don’t want to get involved in the drama,” I suggest that as responsible, honest members of this community, we need to become aware of the truth and respond accordingly.

Please share this information with all you care about who you think would be interested. Fare Well Brothers & Sisters! I hope to see many of you out here on “summer tour!” Happy Festival season! Give me a call if you have any questions, as my access to email is pretty limited while on the road here in the vanogen.
MusiCat Max


And your phone number is. . .? I'd love to ask you a few questions.

----------------------------------------------------
The problems with this new pagan event phoenix fire:

Here is a brief summary of some of the events in the development of 'phoenix fire.'

Adam Fleischer and Frances Raven Marquez signed a written agreement for Raven to take over the FIREDANCE Festival, leaving Adam to produce “Firedance Camp” and “Firedance Santa Cruz.” (DOCUMENTED)

Raven started to not meet her commitments per the written agreement.

Morwen Two Feathers, representing Raven’s new “Council,” posted a “Transition FAQ” about the new FIREDANCE to the Community discussion group. This document had many falsehoods/lies/misrepresentations, which are documented, in its description of Raven’s agreement with Adam and in describing Adam’s role in the community and the Festival. Morwen wrote that Raven was the source of the information presented.


The misinformation in the first “Transition FAQ” was that Adam had turned over the discussion list, ownership of the web site, and the physical assets of Firedance to Raven, and that he was not involved in decision-making regarding the “new” Firedance. This FAQ was pulled within 48 hours of posting because the Council became aware that this was not the case. The revised FAQ, which now resides on this blog site (scroll down), corrected that misinformation. We have yet to see a single statement in the revised blog proved a lie, despite the continual repetition of this charge.


Adam wrote a friendly note to Raven asking for the document to please be reviewed and corrected with accurate, truthful statements. Raven refused to correct the lies, even while she acknowledged the truth that the document included falsehoods. Adam communicated this was a breach in the spirit of the agreement, along with a legal breach of contract, and Adam insisted that they take down the lies and communicate the truth. Raven continued to refuse, and Raven said that she wasn’t responsible for what was in this FAQ, that it was written by Morwen and the Council, and they were responsible and she wouldn’t do anything about it.


I can’t speak for what transpired between Raven and Adam. I do know that she asked us to take down the FAQ a day or two after we posted it, and we complied.



So Morwen says the Transition FAQ is true and reliable because it came from Raven, and Raven said she wasn’t the source and that she’s not responsible if it’s wrong, it’s Morwen’s responsibility.


Actually, this is not what happened at all. The Council was very clear that we believed the first FAQ was true because were told so by Raven, and when we realized it contained misinformation, we removed the FAQ from our web site, wrote an updated FAQ, and later addressed the issues of Raven’s credibility and responsibility on the blog site.


Insidious example of lack of responsibility and accountability. Adam asks for, pleads for, a phone discussion with Raven, and a face-to-face meeting to try and resolve this dispute before it escalates. Adam called Raven over half a dozen times, and she never once answered or returned a call, and she refused to meet. This complete unwillingness to talk or meet with a shared intention to clear up the dispute at hand is yet another clear example of Raven and Morwen and the Phoenix Fire Council not walking their talk, being full of BS.


In truth, Raven’s unwillingness to meet one-on-one privately with Adam was rooted in her unwillingness to be browbeaten and insulted, as she was in a previous conversation with him. Once Adam made clear that he still considered himself to have the privileges of the owner and would not allow Firedance to belong to the community, there was no more “shared intention” between him and Raven. This is my interpretation from direct conversations with Raven.


Adam reminded Raven that the written agreement left him with the power to take down the document from the Web site and to moderate the FIREDANCE Discussion eGroup, which Adam said he would do if they did not remove the “Transition FAQ” with the misinformation.

Finally, the erroneous “Transition FAQ” was removed from the web site with a short post acknowledging that it was in dispute, but they did not make the corrections to their lies and/or mistakes.


Yes, we did: it's in this blog, scroll down.


It seems that Adam’s insistence to Raven and Morwen to communicate honestly led Raven to feel she couldn’t live with this situation and the agreement she made with Adam.


Actually, Adam never once communicated with me directly during this entire series of events, to “insist” on honest communication or anything else.


It seems Raven’s plan was to lie to the council and community about Adam (this is well documented!)and to not keep much of her written agreement, and she didn’t think Adam could do anything about it. When it turned out Adam could do something about it, Raven moved forward to a higher level of immoral and illegal actions with the collusion of the firedance council that was being renamed the phoenix fire council.

Raven handed off the contract to Camp Cutter to the group of people who had been the new Firedance Council and said she was going to dissolve the Firedance corporation. This appears illegal and motivated by fraudulent intent. She called Camp Cutter herself, had them transfer the contract, and Raven herself paid the deposit check. Probably understanding the illegal nature of how Raven handed off the contract, both Raven and Morwen wrote that Raven “had absolutely nothing to do” with the new group getting the Cutter contract. They said someone new from their group had contacted Cutter and initiated a brand new contract. Again, Boy Scouts Officials have confirmed that Raven called and transferred the agreement and paid the deposit, another documented example of both Raven and Morwen lying.


This is what happened. Raven chose to dissolve Firedance, Inc, which was her legal right to do after assuming and paying off all the debt. She was not going to produce Firedance at all rather than do it under Adam’s terms that it not be given over to the community. (Perhaps she should never have signed Adam’s contract in the first place, but hindsight is always 20/20.) When she saw that we wanted to move forward as a community anyway, she allowed the deposit she had already paid to be applied to our contract, with the understanding that it would be repaid to her. (As noted above, the money to cover the entire contract, including the repayment of the deposit, is already in the bank.) A member of our Council went to Cutter and negotiated a new contract on very different terms than the one Raven had. Raven removed herself from the Council and the ongoing planning and work on the event, a decision which grieved her very much but which she did so that it was true to say that she had nothing to do with the new event or contract. We have clear legal advice, from a lawyer who has seen Raven’s contract with Adam, that there is nothing illegal about our contract with Cutter. This will not change no matter how often anyone repeats the charge that the contract is illegal.


Raven says she had to do these things in order to create a ‘community run Festival.” Adam contends that she did these actions with the fraudulent and illegal intent to avoid her legal obligations.


And what legal obligations were those? To pay Adam a percentage of revenue from the new Firedance? Perhaps this is the crux of the matter.


The phoenix fire web site’s history section directly links to what they call a “3rd party” description of Raven’s actions. This document, even more so than the previous Transition FAQ, is full of lies and misinformation. This “official history,” endorsed by Morwen and Jimi Two Feathers, is written by an ANONYMOUS writer that admits they have not seen the written agreement in question, and this ANONYMOUS writer quotes an UNNAMED SOURCE in describing the situation.

It is clearly incongruent (if not pathetic) that this new phoenix fire council that has stated its commitment to transparency, accountability, responsibility and integrity can condone an ANONYMOUS writer (that hasn’t seen the source documents being described) who quotes an UNNAMED source who is quoting someone who is documented to have repeatedly lied on related issues.


This is really quite amusing, given that no one knows who Max is (although Adam has acknowledged that he is the source of the information in this letter). But let me say it again: Although I am not the owner of the blog site, and while I didn’t write it all myself – it was definitely a collaborative effort -- I will gladly take responsibility for everything written there. The revised FAQ posted there was endorsed by the entire Fire Family Council. We did not want to make this drama the main thing to do with Phoenix Fire, and so posted it off the Phoenix Fire web site and attempted to take the focus from any single author. However, since the anonymity of the writer has now been made an issue, let’s just clear that up by saying I wrote it with input from others in the Fire Family Council, who can make their own choice about whether to claim shared authorship.


We know community members who are aware of this information and believe the truth of what is stated here, but they are afraid to communicate this to the community at large, because of the impassioned emotional attachment some old-timer East Coast community members have to these lies. They fear being ostracized and intensely attacked for speaking up for these difficult and painful truths.

We are heartbroken that this community has gotten to a place where community members FEAR speaking the truth, because of the irrational emotional response and negative repercussions they expect to get from a handful of (active and very vocal) old-timer community members.



I have to say that I find this amusing, too. I invite anyone who has ever worked or dealt with me over the last 20 years to testify about whether it is my style or mode of operating to “ostracize and attack” people who disagree with me. I (along with the Council) have welcomed questions and challenges, and have responded openly to each one.

We have wished Adam well in his endeavors and said nothing negative about him other than that we choose not to work with him. Now it’s time to return my focus to Phoenix Fire.

Morwen

Sometimes,The Truth Hurts

As the story of the dissolution of Firedance continues to unfold, some truths are becoming clearer, and they aren’t pretty.

In particular, as more details of the contract that Raven signed with Adam to “purchase” Firedance, Inc. become known, it is apparent that Raven was not completely forthcoming with the Council she had recruited about the terms of her contract with Adam. Now, please note that this writer has not laid eyes on the actual contract, due to a nondisclosure clause that would prevent us from telling you anything about it if we did read it directly. (Don’t ask us why; only Adam can explain why he did not want the terms of his contract with Raven to be public knowledge.) The information below is accurate to the best of our knowledge, based on sources who have seen the contract.

In effect, the contract that Raven signed gave her only the right to produce a festival called Firedance, and that’s all. In exchange, she agreed to take on the corporation’s debt, and to pay Adam a percentage of gross registration revenues every year that a Firedance Festival would be produced into the indefinite future. The contract did not give Raven rights to the internet domain, the yahoo discussion group, or the physical assets of Firedance, Inc. In fact, the contract explicitly retained those rights to Adam. Why did Raven represent to the Council that Adam was going to turn those things over to her? Because he told her he would. Raven chose to believe Adam’s verbal assurances, even though those were contradicted by the written contract. She chose to do this and to sign the contract against the advice of her legal advisers, because she wanted so much for the community to gather together this summer.

When it became apparent to Raven that Adam did not intend to do what she believed he told her he would, she considered that a violation of her agreement with him, and took steps to dissolve Firedance, Inc. (after offering to sell it back to him, an offer he refused). As noted earlier, in order to dissolve the corporation, Raven was required to pay off all the debt that was in the Firedance, Inc. name, primarily credit card bills to the tune of over $10,000. The status of this contract and additional claimed unpaid debt is currently under legal review, and neither this writer nor the Fire Family Council has an opinion about the legality of the contract or its dissolution. We leave it to our readers to form their own opinions about fairness.

The Council had an entirely separate reaction to this turn of events. Council members had agreed to join on the basis of Raven’s assurances that Adam was no longer involved in the festival, having sold it to her. (Many of them had earlier resigned from Firedance because of differences with Adam’s philosophy and goals for the festival.) They knew that Adam was to receive a percentage of revenues, but believed that he had turned over the discussion group, domain, and physical assets to Raven. When the Council realized that Raven had misrepresented the true state of affairs, they regrouped as a new Fire Family Council in order to pursue their original goal: to create a community-run, self-sustaining fire circle gathering. Realizing that they were essentially starting from scratch, they independently contacted Camp Cutter and made a new contract with the camp for some of the dates that were freed up by the dissolution of Firedance, Inc.

At this time Raven is not a member of the Fire Family Council or the core production team for Phoenix Fire Gathering. Even though Council members love Raven and sympathize with her original heartfelt desire to preserve Firedance for the community.

Clarification

Clarification:

Regarding the statement in the “Flap FAQ" dated April 5,Sec 2,Paragraph 2 that Raven and Adam’s contract is “null and void” because Firedance, Inc. has been dissolved: that is a misstatement. The status of Raven’s contract with Adam is currently under discussion by them and their respective lawyers. However, it is true that because Firedance, Inc. has been dissolved, Adam Fleischer has no financial interest in or connection whatsoever with the Phoenix Fire gathering being put on by the Fire Family Council August 10-13, 2006.

Dissolution, illusion....and timing.

The following post was written by Raven and sent to Adam for posting on Firedance Discussion, which he agreed to do when she informed him that she intended to dissolve FIREDANCE Inc. As we have seen, Adam did not keep his word, and instead, after receiving her announcement posted his own announcement which disparaged Raven's competence and motives. Here is Raven's message to the community in her own words.

***********


As a community grows and evolves its goals and processes change. The FIREDANCE Inc. group is no different. One of my goals since I bought FIREDANCE Inc. has been to form a community run Festival that would serve our Fire Family.

In order to make room for a truly Community run Fire Festival, I have decided to dissolve FIREDANCE Inc as a corporation in the State of California. In addition the Firedance Festival scheduled for this August has been canceled. I continue to support all those who continue to work on the goal of having a Festival on the west coast, especially all those who are conducting Fire Circles in their own areas. To make the vision of a community run Festival happen it will be important that we continue to develop and grow as a community.

In the mean time, Adam and I will continue to work on the process of the Corporate dissolution, and Adam will continue to host Fire Circles and other events in the Northern California area. I am grateful for all that I have learned in this process, and thankful that I have been of service to this community.

Raven Marquez

FD flap FAQ

FD Flap FAQ
April, 2006

This document is a follow-up to a Transition FAQ about Firedance that was originally posted in March, 2006. That document responded to questions about Adam Fleischer’s role in what was then planned to be the Firedance Festival 2006, following the purchase of Firedance, Inc. by Raven Marquez. The first FAQ stated that Adam had turned over to Raven full control of the Firedance Discussion list, the Firedance.org domain, and all the assets of Firedance. It became almost immediately apparent that this was not the case, and so the Transition FAQ was pulled after only a few days. We are not reposting that FAQ because much of it referred to the planned Firedance Festival, which is now irrelevant since there will be no Firedance Festival. The FAQ below answers questions about what has happened since the Transition FAQ was posted and pulled, and about what is happening, now that Firedance Festival no longer exists.


1) About the Firedance Discussion Group - what's the deal with moderation/censorship? I thought you said Adam was no longer involved?

Yeah, we did say that in March, and we were mistaken. While Adam had put Raven on as moderator of Firedance Discussion following her purchase of Firedance, Inc, he was still the owner of the group. Because Raven believed Adam’s verbal assurances that he intended to transfer ownership of the Firedance Discussion Yahoo group to her, she allowed the Transition FAQ to be posted which said she controlled the group. In fact, when the Transition FAQ was posted, Adam responded by removing Raven as moderator of Firedance Discussion and changing the group status so that he approved messages before posting. As far as we know, that is still the status of the Firedance Discussion list.


2) What's the state of the contract between Adam and Raven, and how is it different than the last FAQ?

When the Transition FAQ was posted, Raven had signed a contract with Adam in which she purchased Firedance, Inc. and in exchange assumed the corporation’s debts and agreed to repay Adam a sum of money (out of festival registrations into the future) which she agreed was what he had invested in the corporation. However, Raven and Adam could not agree on the definition of “ownership.” When Adam took control of the Discussion list, and further said that she did not have the right to turn the organizing of the festival over to the community, Raven considered that a violation of the spirit of their agreement. Therefore, Raven has dissolved the Firedance, Inc. corporation, so that there could be a total and indisputable break between Firedance and any other event or gathering. The former Firedance Council has dissolved, and reformed in a new configuration as the Fire Family Council. Raven has chosen to let go of the contract with Camp Cutter, and a new contract has been issued to the Fire Family Council.

Because Firedance, Inc. is dissolved, Raven’s contract with Adam is null and void. Note that in order to dissolve the corporation, Raven was required to pay off of the corporation’s outstanding debt. Out-of-pocket cost to Raven to date is approximately $11,000, for a corporation whose debts were accrued before she bought it, and without receiving any physical assets or other corporate property such as the database and mailing list.


3) Does Firedance still exist? Is there going to be a Firedance Festival this year?

Firedance, Inc. no longer exists as a corporation in the state of California. Therefore, there will not be a Firedance Festival this year. However, there will be a new gathering in August arising from the ashes of Firedance, the Phoenix Fire Gathering.

Adam may, if he chooses, continue to use the Firedance name in the future, although he cannot reincorporate using that name until the grace period expires in the state of California. The Fire Family Council emphatically removes itself from any connection with Firedance, Inc. or any future events that Adam may choose to produce using the name Firedance, though we acknowledge his right to do so.

Regarding this, here is part of Adam’s response to Raven’s notifying him that she intended to dissolve Firedance, Inc.:

“Thank you for stating your respect of my plan and rights to produce FIREDANCE Camp, etc., and I will wish you well on any and all fire circle festival endeavors you may embark upon in the future.”

Though at times Adam has made it extremely difficult for us to move forward in our process of creating a sacred west coast fire circle event, many of us wish for him healing and wellness in the future.

4) What is the Phoenix Fire Gathering? Who is involved with it?

Phoenix Fire Gathering is a sacred fire circle event scheduled for August 10-13, 2006 in the Santa Cruz Mountains. The event is produced by a group of people calling themselves the Fire Family Council. You will find a list of these people and their background information at http://firefamilygathering.org/bios.

The Fire Family Council does include many people who were formerly involved in Firedance. Nearly all of these people resigned or removed themselves from Firedance when Adam was the owner and Executive Producer – some publicly, some quietly – because of differences in philosophy underlying the management and production of the festival. The intention of the Fire Family Council has always been to build a community-owned and run gathering that will endure independently of any one or few individuals’ money or charisma.


5) How is the Phoenix Fire Gathering different than the Firedance Festival?

While Phoenix Fire Gathering will draw upon the same sacred fire circle traditions that originally underlay Firedance, elements that were specifically developed at or for Firedance will not be part of Phoenix Fire.

Elements of the fire circle tradition that the Council developed or learned from previous experience with other gatherings, will be a part of Phoenix Fire. Examples include the smudge gate, affinity groups, workshops focusing on aspects of the fire circle experience, and so on. And of course, the all-night sacred fire circles.

Phoenix Fire will include an affinity group focused on community organization structure and council process to support future community-building among members of the Tribe on the west coast. There will also be council meetings among the staff, and a heartsong council to which the entire gathering will be invited, to explore visions for the future of the fire circle community.



6) Will Jeff & Abbi be involved with Phoenix Fire Gathering?

Jeff and Abbi have been apprised of our plans and a conversation is beginning about how they might participate. The Fire Family Council does not want to duplicate the dynamics of Firedance, even as we want to honor the work of all those who created that festival. We will welcome Jeff and Abbi to Phoenix Fire should they decide to come.


7) Where can we go to keep up on info about Phoenix Fire Gathering?

Details about the upcoming gathering may be found at www.firefamilygathering.org. The basics of the site are up now, and more will be added in the coming weeks as plans solidify. There is also a new Yahoo group which will both disseminate information about the gathering and be a place for discussion of this transition and the community-building work of the west coast fire circle Tribe. You can join the new group at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/firetribecalifornia



8) Why should we trust these answers, when there was misinformation in the first Transition FAQ?

Certainly not “because we say so”! Only time and experience will tell. It is our intention to be as transparent as possible, and to move forward with integrity to build an organization that reflects the will of the community. We apologize for the misinformation that went out in the Transition FAQ, and hope that this FAQ will clear up any confusion.

This comment from the Transition FAQ is still true: “The evolution of this festival away from a single owner-operated model towards a community-owned model will be a process, not an event. Any member of the community who shows up reliably, takes responsibility, and demonstrates that the greater good of the community is their priority will be able to be a part of the decision-making process going forward.” We hope that many of you reading this will take us up on it, and we ask that anyone who has any questions or concerns bring them up directly, and we will do our best to address them openly. To contact us, email info@firefamilygathering.org.